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	<title>Comments on: The Daintiest Dynamos</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.foresight.org/nanodot/?feed=rss2&#038;p=1712" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.foresight.org/nanodot/?p=1712</link>
	<description>examining transformative technology</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 03 Apr 2013 18:23:47 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Itharian</title>
		<link>http://www.foresight.org/nanodot/?p=1712#comment-450558</link>
		<dc:creator>Itharian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2008 11:49:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.foresight.org/nanodot/?p=1712#comment-450558</guid>
		<description>ZPE does seem to exist, shown by the Casimir effect. However there are two problems. First, a large amount of ZPE would cause massive and rapid expansion of the universe (in astronomy ZPE is a possible creator of the cosmological constant). Currently the value of the cosmological constant is 10^-29 g/cm^3, where as ZPE is calculated at 10^93 g/cm^3. Clearly something is wrong somewhere.

Secondly, even at high levels, its wouldn&#039;t be free energy. The Casimir effect works becuase the ZPE between the plates has gone DOWN, less is there. Thats why there is unequal pressures on the plates driving them together. So you simply convert ZPE into some other form of energy. It isn&#039;t free at all. Plus, to drive the plates back apart for a redo, you have to overcome the zpe pressures which, due to imperfections, costs more energy than what you got out of it.

In short, you would have to make a lot of disposable casimir plates to use ZPE, and there cannot be much of it lying around due to a small cosmolgical constant (unless there is a lot of negative ZPE that cancels out the massive positive that has been calculated to exist). Either way, it isn&#039;t free energy, and the size of the devices have to be really small and disposible.

Contrary to popular opinion, physics is not overturned ever, but enhanced. Newton was not thrown out, but added upon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ZPE does seem to exist, shown by the Casimir effect. However there are two problems. First, a large amount of ZPE would cause massive and rapid expansion of the universe (in astronomy ZPE is a possible creator of the cosmological constant). Currently the value of the cosmological constant is 10^-29 g/cm^3, where as ZPE is calculated at 10^93 g/cm^3. Clearly something is wrong somewhere.</p>
<p>Secondly, even at high levels, its wouldn&#8217;t be free energy. The Casimir effect works becuase the ZPE between the plates has gone DOWN, less is there. Thats why there is unequal pressures on the plates driving them together. So you simply convert ZPE into some other form of energy. It isn&#8217;t free at all. Plus, to drive the plates back apart for a redo, you have to overcome the zpe pressures which, due to imperfections, costs more energy than what you got out of it.</p>
<p>In short, you would have to make a lot of disposable casimir plates to use ZPE, and there cannot be much of it lying around due to a small cosmolgical constant (unless there is a lot of negative ZPE that cancels out the massive positive that has been calculated to exist). Either way, it isn&#8217;t free energy, and the size of the devices have to be really small and disposible.</p>
<p>Contrary to popular opinion, physics is not overturned ever, but enhanced. Newton was not thrown out, but added upon.</p>
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		<title>By: Christine Peterson</title>
		<link>http://www.foresight.org/nanodot/?p=1712#comment-9337</link>
		<dc:creator>Christine Peterson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Apr 2006 20:39:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.foresight.org/nanodot/?p=1712#comment-9337</guid>
		<description>I updated the first link.  The second one seems to be working. --CP</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I updated the first link.  The second one seems to be working. &#8211;CP</p>
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		<title>By: Wuhaa</title>
		<link>http://www.foresight.org/nanodot/?p=1712#comment-9245</link>
		<dc:creator>Wuhaa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Apr 2006 00:24:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.foresight.org/nanodot/?p=1712#comment-9245</guid>
		<description>the links to the demo movie and the book are dead links

please update your liks</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the links to the demo movie and the book are dead links</p>
<p>please update your liks</p>
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		<title>By: Iron Sun</title>
		<link>http://www.foresight.org/nanodot/?p=1712#comment-4763</link>
		<dc:creator>Iron Sun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Jan 2005 02:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.foresight.org/nanodot/?p=1712#comment-4763</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Re:And something you&#039;ve overlooked...&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;Quite frankly, however, I really don&#039;t give a damn what any of you think about me or my ideas...I know I&#039;m better than most of you, and I doubt I will ever find my equal (or greater) here&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;w00t!&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Prepared to give us the skinny on chemically-powered nuclear transmutation, like you repeatedly &lt;a href=&quot;http://nanodot.org/comments.pl?sid=03/04/29/0632219&amp;op=&amp;threshold=0&amp;commentsort=0&amp;mode=thread&amp;startat=&amp;pid=17#18&quot;&gt;promised&lt;/a&gt; a fair while ago? Let&#039;s recap: You made unequivocal statements about the feasibility of elemental nuclear transmutation using nothing more than chemical bond energy. A number of people, including those working with nuclear material, explained in depth how you were wrong. You replied that you knew they were wrong and could prove it. Repeated requests for you to do so were continually sidestepped but never backed down from. In the linked comment above, yoour last on the issue, you still give the impression that your proof is just around the corner, you just need to finish your reading.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;How&#039;s that working out for you?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;That issue is of course directly related to the one at hand. Unable to cope with the world as it is, you have a driving need to demonstrate your marginalised unsung genius status by championing any cause that would show that the state of the world and your inability to cope is the direct result of evil designs and suppressed knowledge rather than your mental deficiencies. As such, you are completely uncritical about what you hitch your wagon to.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The really sad bit about all this is just how unaware you are of what a textbook psychological profile you present. World-spanning conspiracies of evil enslavers, secret knowledge jealously hidden from the deserving and long-suffering, the refusal to acknowledge petulant parasitism as anything other than noble rebellion...you really, &lt;em&gt;really&lt;/em&gt; hate your parents, don&#039;t you?&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Re:And something you&#39;ve overlooked&#8230;</strong></p>
<blockquote>
<p><em>Quite frankly, however, I really don&#39;t give a damn what any of you think about me or my ideas&#8230;I know I&#39;m better than most of you, and I doubt I will ever find my equal (or greater) here</em></p>
</blockquote>
<p>w00t!</p>
<p>Prepared to give us the skinny on chemically-powered nuclear transmutation, like you repeatedly <a href="http://nanodot.org/comments.pl?sid=03/04/29/0632219&amp;op=&amp;threshold=0&amp;commentsort=0&amp;mode=thread&amp;startat=&amp;pid=17#18">promised</a> a fair while ago? Let&#39;s recap: You made unequivocal statements about the feasibility of elemental nuclear transmutation using nothing more than chemical bond energy. A number of people, including those working with nuclear material, explained in depth how you were wrong. You replied that you knew they were wrong and could prove it. Repeated requests for you to do so were continually sidestepped but never backed down from. In the linked comment above, yoour last on the issue, you still give the impression that your proof is just around the corner, you just need to finish your reading.</p>
<p>How&#39;s that working out for you?</p>
<p>That issue is of course directly related to the one at hand. Unable to cope with the world as it is, you have a driving need to demonstrate your marginalised unsung genius status by championing any cause that would show that the state of the world and your inability to cope is the direct result of evil designs and suppressed knowledge rather than your mental deficiencies. As such, you are completely uncritical about what you hitch your wagon to.</p>
<p>The really sad bit about all this is just how unaware you are of what a textbook psychological profile you present. World-spanning conspiracies of evil enslavers, secret knowledge jealously hidden from the deserving and long-suffering, the refusal to acknowledge petulant parasitism as anything other than noble rebellion&#8230;you really, <em>really</em> hate your parents, don&#39;t you?</p>
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		<title>By: Kadamose</title>
		<link>http://www.foresight.org/nanodot/?p=1712#comment-4766</link>
		<dc:creator>Kadamose</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Jan 2005 00:10:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.foresight.org/nanodot/?p=1712#comment-4766</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;An idea and a question.&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;In that previous video clip I posted, Hutchinson uses crystal/mineral to tap into Zero-Point Energy. With that in mind, once we understood why that particular material taps into ZPE in the first place, wouldn&#039;t it be possible to create a synthetic material created on the nanoscale level that not emulates the properties of the mineral, but amplifies the output by several magnitude?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Of course, this has most likely already been done (conspiracy), but it&#039;s important that the scientific community that isn&#039;t in the know becomes aware of this. ZPE, in my opinion, is even more important than MNT...mainly because it not only solves the power problem associated with Nanotechnology, it also opens up the door to make everything free (i.e. How can one charge money for something that&#039;s unlimited?)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Many nanotech advocates are aware of the coming paradigm shift, but they refuse to believe that money, governments, and religion will go the way of the dinosaur. So I ask, if we have unlimited energy (ZPE), and unlimited resources (MNT), how does any intelligent person expect the current world infrastructure to not only survive the coming shift, but also prosper in it?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The &#039;old world&#039; is dying; let it die.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
   &lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>An idea and a question.</strong></p>
<p>In that previous video clip I posted, Hutchinson uses crystal/mineral to tap into Zero-Point Energy. With that in mind, once we understood why that particular material taps into ZPE in the first place, wouldn&#39;t it be possible to create a synthetic material created on the nanoscale level that not emulates the properties of the mineral, but amplifies the output by several magnitude?</p>
<p>Of course, this has most likely already been done (conspiracy), but it&#39;s important that the scientific community that isn&#39;t in the know becomes aware of this. ZPE, in my opinion, is even more important than MNT&#8230;mainly because it not only solves the power problem associated with Nanotechnology, it also opens up the door to make everything free (i.e. How can one charge money for something that&#39;s unlimited?)</p>
<p>Many nanotech advocates are aware of the coming paradigm shift, but they refuse to believe that money, governments, and religion will go the way of the dinosaur. So I ask, if we have unlimited energy (ZPE), and unlimited resources (MNT), how does any intelligent person expect the current world infrastructure to not only survive the coming shift, but also prosper in it?</p>
<p>The &#39;old world&#39; is dying; let it die.</p>
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		<title>By: RobertBradbury</title>
		<link>http://www.foresight.org/nanodot/?p=1712#comment-4762</link>
		<dc:creator>RobertBradbury</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Jan 2005 14:23:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.foresight.org/nanodot/?p=1712#comment-4762</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Re:And something you&#039;ve overlooked...&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I would suggest that one may need to be very careful when mixing discussions of ZPE and Brownian motion. ZPE is involved with quantum theory and fluctuations in whether something &quot;exists&quot; or not while Brownian motion (thermal noise) is involved with basic thermodynamics due to the latent heat energy within an environment. They are *not* the same type of energy source though I could see one making arguments that similar types of methods might be used in harvesting both sources.&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Re:And something you&#39;ve overlooked&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>I would suggest that one may need to be very careful when mixing discussions of ZPE and Brownian motion. ZPE is involved with quantum theory and fluctuations in whether something &quot;exists&quot; or not while Brownian motion (thermal noise) is involved with basic thermodynamics due to the latent heat energy within an environment. They are *not* the same type of energy source though I could see one making arguments that similar types of methods might be used in harvesting both sources.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous Coward</title>
		<link>http://www.foresight.org/nanodot/?p=1712#comment-4761</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous Coward</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Jan 2005 07:39:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.foresight.org/nanodot/?p=1712#comment-4761</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Re:And something you&#039;ve overlooked...&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Hello Robert and Kadamose and all. I am interested in both Molecular Manufacturing and Zero Point Radiation/Energy converters, and I am glad this is being discussed and dialogued here. There is actually major research and positive experimental results in this area, one name used for this is the BROWNIAN MOTOR. At least one major MNT book discusses the concept of using Brownian Motion Motors to power nanodevices and even macroscale devices. Go to www.integrity-research.org and look at the &quot;Feasibility ZPE Study: Zero Point Energy Extraction from the Quantum Vacuum for the Performance of Useful Work.&quot; Thomas Valone and the IRI published this thick multi paged document. There are discussions in there regarding how (interestingly enough) some of the ideal designs for ZPE systems operate at the micro MEMS and Nanoscale Assembler levels of manipulation. Molecular nanotech devices will likely be powered by chemical conversion, solar electricity, hydrogen power, zero point radiation, and more. Check out www.quantumfields.com, this shows a possible ZPE battery system that would use MEMS technology. There is also research into Macroscopic Vacuum Polarization, ie learning how to cohere the zero point motion/energy macroscopically into useful power, and more. The work of Dr Moray King (Tapping the Zero Point Energy) and Thomas Bearden may be of interest to you, as well. I personally believe two of the most formidable technologies are Molecular Manufacturing and Zero Point &quot;Vacuum&quot; Energy as well as Local Spacetime Curving Engines. The rectification of thermal noise is a fascinating area of research. Check out www.coolchips.com as well.&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Re:And something you&#39;ve overlooked&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>Hello Robert and Kadamose and all. I am interested in both Molecular Manufacturing and Zero Point Radiation/Energy converters, and I am glad this is being discussed and dialogued here. There is actually major research and positive experimental results in this area, one name used for this is the BROWNIAN MOTOR. At least one major MNT book discusses the concept of using Brownian Motion Motors to power nanodevices and even macroscale devices. Go to <a href="http://www.integrity-research.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.integrity-research.org</a> and look at the &quot;Feasibility ZPE Study: Zero Point Energy Extraction from the Quantum Vacuum for the Performance of Useful Work.&quot; Thomas Valone and the IRI published this thick multi paged document. There are discussions in there regarding how (interestingly enough) some of the ideal designs for ZPE systems operate at the micro MEMS and Nanoscale Assembler levels of manipulation. Molecular nanotech devices will likely be powered by chemical conversion, solar electricity, hydrogen power, zero point radiation, and more. Check out <a href="http://www.quantumfields.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.quantumfields.com</a>, this shows a possible ZPE battery system that would use MEMS technology. There is also research into Macroscopic Vacuum Polarization, ie learning how to cohere the zero point motion/energy macroscopically into useful power, and more. The work of Dr Moray King (Tapping the Zero Point Energy) and Thomas Bearden may be of interest to you, as well. I personally believe two of the most formidable technologies are Molecular Manufacturing and Zero Point &quot;Vacuum&quot; Energy as well as Local Spacetime Curving Engines. The rectification of thermal noise is a fascinating area of research. Check out <a href="http://www.coolchips.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.coolchips.com</a> as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Novak3</title>
		<link>http://www.foresight.org/nanodot/?p=1712#comment-4764</link>
		<dc:creator>Novak3</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Jan 2005 22:42:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.foresight.org/nanodot/?p=1712#comment-4764</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Re:Radioactive battieries are not the future!&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;3.6 volts of what, now?&lt;/p&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Re:Radioactive battieries are not the future!</strong></p>
<p>3.6 volts of what, now?</p>
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		<title>By: Kadamose</title>
		<link>http://www.foresight.org/nanodot/?p=1712#comment-4760</link>
		<dc:creator>Kadamose</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Jan 2005 22:37:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.foresight.org/nanodot/?p=1712#comment-4760</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Re:And something you&#039;ve overlooked...&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Ah, but that&#039;s where you&#039;re wrong...the government is nothing but conspiracy...did you ever read that book I told you to read? &lt;em&gt;The Biggest Secret&lt;/em&gt; by David Icke? If not, then download it &lt;a href=&quot;http://myweb.cableone.net/bgl50/the_biggest_secret.pdf&quot;&gt;HERE&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The material presented in the book is all true.&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Re:And something you&#39;ve overlooked&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>Ah, but that&#39;s where you&#39;re wrong&#8230;the government is nothing but conspiracy&#8230;did you ever read that book I told you to read? <em>The Biggest Secret</em> by David Icke? If not, then download it <a href="http://myweb.cableone.net/bgl50/the_biggest_secret.pdf">HERE</a></p>
<p>The material presented in the book is all true.</p>
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		<title>By: RobertBradbury</title>
		<link>http://www.foresight.org/nanodot/?p=1712#comment-4759</link>
		<dc:creator>RobertBradbury</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Jan 2005 22:20:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.foresight.org/nanodot/?p=1712#comment-4759</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Re:And something you&#039;ve overlooked...&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Ah, but it is important to value what everyone brings to the table as it is highly unlikely that it is possible to know everything... :-;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;With respect to ZPE. Yes I believe it is a real concept. But as others have pointed out using it in a useful way may be *very* *very* difficult. I believe you too easily fall into the &quot;conspiracy&quot; box when the truth is that one is simply dealing with a difficult problem. If free energy were available don&#039;t you think politicians would be wrestling with each other to take credit for it? I doubt any &quot;club&quot;, no matter how well paid would be able to conceal or restrict this for long. The payoffs are simply too high for &quot;breaking ranks&quot;.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Thus we don&#039;t have &quot;free&quot; energy not because there is a conspiracy but because the engineering it is hard and we haven&#039;t figured out how to do it yet (if in fact it can be done).&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;So it is pointless to discuss it unless you have a concrete plan, backed up by academic research, that would enable its development with an affordable budget and on a time scale that would be useful.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Citing Forward (though I consider him to be a brilliant person) doesn&#039;t cut it because once you start using negative mass in ones equations one is over the edge of what we can seriously consider engineering.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;There is &quot;outside of the box&quot; and there are &quot;boxes that cannot exist&quot; -- no way, no how -- unless you create a universe subject to different physical laws.&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Re:And something you&#39;ve overlooked&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>Ah, but it is important to value what everyone brings to the table as it is highly unlikely that it is possible to know everything&#8230; :-;</p>
<p>With respect to ZPE. Yes I believe it is a real concept. But as others have pointed out using it in a useful way may be *very* *very* difficult. I believe you too easily fall into the &quot;conspiracy&quot; box when the truth is that one is simply dealing with a difficult problem. If free energy were available don&#39;t you think politicians would be wrestling with each other to take credit for it? I doubt any &quot;club&quot;, no matter how well paid would be able to conceal or restrict this for long. The payoffs are simply too high for &quot;breaking ranks&quot;.</p>
<p>Thus we don&#39;t have &quot;free&quot; energy not because there is a conspiracy but because the engineering it is hard and we haven&#39;t figured out how to do it yet (if in fact it can be done).</p>
<p>So it is pointless to discuss it unless you have a concrete plan, backed up by academic research, that would enable its development with an affordable budget and on a time scale that would be useful.</p>
<p>Citing Forward (though I consider him to be a brilliant person) doesn&#39;t cut it because once you start using negative mass in ones equations one is over the edge of what we can seriously consider engineering.</p>
<p>There is &quot;outside of the box&quot; and there are &quot;boxes that cannot exist&quot; &#8212; no way, no how &#8212; unless you create a universe subject to different physical laws.</p>
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