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	<title>Comments on: The nanotechnology we were promised</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.foresight.org/nanodot/?feed=rss2&#038;p=2961" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.foresight.org/nanodot/?p=2961</link>
	<description>examining transformative technology</description>
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		<title>By: </title>
		<link>http://www.foresight.org/nanodot/?p=2961#comment-814916</link>
		<dc:creator></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 21:20:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.foresight.org/nanodot/?p=2961#comment-814916</guid>
		<description>&quot;in the past 20 years we’ve made 10 years’ progress&quot;
One of nanotech&#039;s perceived promises is life extension in about 30 years. How much use is this to decision makers aged 60-70?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;in the past 20 years we’ve made 10 years’ progress&#8221;<br />
One of nanotech&#8217;s perceived promises is life extension in about 30 years. How much use is this to decision makers aged 60-70?</p>
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		<title>By: J. Storrs Hall</title>
		<link>http://www.foresight.org/nanodot/?p=2961#comment-814849</link>
		<dc:creator>J. Storrs Hall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 16:00:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.foresight.org/nanodot/?p=2961#comment-814849</guid>
		<description>@Dexter: Thanks for your original blog post, btw, I don&#039;t think our opinions on the subject are hugely at odds. The point here (as opposed to last week&#039;s post) wasn&#039;t so much about who owned the word (nobody does) but that the thing to do now is to move toward the goal, by whatever name.  A subtext is that the goal is perhaps closer than many think: in the past 20 years we&#039;ve made 10 years&#039; progress. Focussing now would mean the difference between another 20 and another 10 years.

Josh</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Dexter: Thanks for your original blog post, btw, I don&#8217;t think our opinions on the subject are hugely at odds. The point here (as opposed to last week&#8217;s post) wasn&#8217;t so much about who owned the word (nobody does) but that the thing to do now is to move toward the goal, by whatever name.  A subtext is that the goal is perhaps closer than many think: in the past 20 years we&#8217;ve made 10 years&#8217; progress. Focussing now would mean the difference between another 20 and another 10 years.</p>
<p>Josh</p>
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		<title>By: </title>
		<link>http://www.foresight.org/nanodot/?p=2961#comment-814680</link>
		<dc:creator></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 04:12:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.foresight.org/nanodot/?p=2961#comment-814680</guid>
		<description>The motivation behind the propaganda concept is clear. The men in control are desperate to remain in control. This same circle of men suppress cold fusion, zero point energy, antigravity, and other technologies that you may or may not believe exist. They fear decentralized molecular manufacturing because it will be the death knell of their control. We must also think in a nonlinear pattern. Nano manufacturing means we will be able to make materials that interact with the submicron level, which means the casimir force, the zero point field. This will mean free energy. The two &quot;fields&quot; overlap.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The motivation behind the propaganda concept is clear. The men in control are desperate to remain in control. This same circle of men suppress cold fusion, zero point energy, antigravity, and other technologies that you may or may not believe exist. They fear decentralized molecular manufacturing because it will be the death knell of their control. We must also think in a nonlinear pattern. Nano manufacturing means we will be able to make materials that interact with the submicron level, which means the casimir force, the zero point field. This will mean free energy. The two &#8220;fields&#8221; overlap.</p>
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		<title>By: </title>
		<link>http://www.foresight.org/nanodot/?p=2961#comment-814650</link>
		<dc:creator></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 02:49:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.foresight.org/nanodot/?p=2961#comment-814650</guid>
		<description>Dexter, there are several answers to your single question:

 Since the funding was obtained politically, it had to meet political standards set by both the public&#039;s understanding of the technology, and the politician&#039;s (and his business advisers, in this case) perception of what that understanding was. Lastly, the politician has to anticipate the public&#039;s reaction to funding this technology, and get the most political benefit out of that reaction as is possible for *both* the business advisers and the politician. There are problems in each of these areas.

The public&#039;s perception of the technology *was* formed early on by the media interest in &quot;the grey goo hypothesis&quot;. The politicians and their politicized business friends perceived that, and told themselves that *any* funding approach that could even vaguely be made to look like funding &quot;grey goo&quot; was politically deadly, for both the politician and for the businessmen who wanted to profit in about the first 5 years from the tech. Their perceptions of what the public would accept nearly froze solid. Despite the positive work that has come out about medical nanotechnology, for instance, there has continued to be resistance to any public funding that faintly looks like it could bring about anything that could become a &quot;disassembler&quot;.

So, mistaken early perceptions, and, in my experience, frozen political perceptions were much of the problem. There *is*, however, one point that few nano-optimists like me like looking at. I first found this with spaceflight technology in the 1960s, even at the height of its popularity. When I described what that tech could do for us, many scoffed. When I showed with logic that their reasons for that were unfounded, many could be convinced. However, a *large* fraction could not be convinced. I found that about 20-30 percent of the local population reacted to the real world large scale changes a truly spacefairing society could introduce, with fear. They spouted wilder and wilder reasons the tech could not work, and were shown to be logically mistaken. This did *nothing* to decrease their opposition. Rather, it *increased* it. They were not truly afraid that the technology that could not work. They were terrified that it could!

They wanted no change in their world. They had spent too many years getting a coherent and working life in the world we had then. They did not want *anything* to upset their applecart! Simply, I have seen this pattern repeat itself with nanotechnology. Such people could ignore the &quot;nerds&quot; building stuff in their garages, who built the microcomputer portion of the industrial revolution, because they were not pushed by the press as real changers, till it was too late to stop their market-based industry from takeoff. They had a precious period of time to work, out of the spotlights.

This is *not* the case with nanotechnology. From day one it has been held up as transformative. Drexler, and myself, and many others, view this with pleasure. *Many* others view it with terror. This is *not* because they still believe in &quot;gray goo&quot;, but because funding this technology makes their future less predictable, *for*them*. People will continue to oppose nanotechnology unless some event makes people more afraid of a nanotechnology competitor than they are of *us* developing mechanosynthesis nanotechnology, as happened with spaceflight, lifting that technology politically, even as it warped its development away from market-viable technologies.

The idea that politicians don&#039;t know about such people is not viable. They want political profit, and with any publicly transformative technology, they start off 20-30 percentage points in the hole. Thus, it was easy for businessmen wanting a profit in 5 years to make a case that molecular mechanosynthesis nanotechnology *had* to be treated as fantasy, in order for the entire field to remain a viable recipient of political funding.

We, on the other hand, should now see that our task is doubled:

1.) To gain the attention of all that we can of the population to the positive aspects of nanotechnology, so that political profitability for the politicians is assured for funding, without the irreconcilables, and even in spite of them.

2.) To make private investment funding the dominant source of funding as soon as possible, so that the political profit/loss balance affects the situation as little as possible.

Regards,

Tom Billings</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dexter, there are several answers to your single question:</p>
<p> Since the funding was obtained politically, it had to meet political standards set by both the public&#8217;s understanding of the technology, and the politician&#8217;s (and his business advisers, in this case) perception of what that understanding was. Lastly, the politician has to anticipate the public&#8217;s reaction to funding this technology, and get the most political benefit out of that reaction as is possible for *both* the business advisers and the politician. There are problems in each of these areas.</p>
<p>The public&#8217;s perception of the technology *was* formed early on by the media interest in &#8220;the grey goo hypothesis&#8221;. The politicians and their politicized business friends perceived that, and told themselves that *any* funding approach that could even vaguely be made to look like funding &#8220;grey goo&#8221; was politically deadly, for both the politician and for the businessmen who wanted to profit in about the first 5 years from the tech. Their perceptions of what the public would accept nearly froze solid. Despite the positive work that has come out about medical nanotechnology, for instance, there has continued to be resistance to any public funding that faintly looks like it could bring about anything that could become a &#8220;disassembler&#8221;.</p>
<p>So, mistaken early perceptions, and, in my experience, frozen political perceptions were much of the problem. There *is*, however, one point that few nano-optimists like me like looking at. I first found this with spaceflight technology in the 1960s, even at the height of its popularity. When I described what that tech could do for us, many scoffed. When I showed with logic that their reasons for that were unfounded, many could be convinced. However, a *large* fraction could not be convinced. I found that about 20-30 percent of the local population reacted to the real world large scale changes a truly spacefairing society could introduce, with fear. They spouted wilder and wilder reasons the tech could not work, and were shown to be logically mistaken. This did *nothing* to decrease their opposition. Rather, it *increased* it. They were not truly afraid that the technology that could not work. They were terrified that it could!</p>
<p>They wanted no change in their world. They had spent too many years getting a coherent and working life in the world we had then. They did not want *anything* to upset their applecart! Simply, I have seen this pattern repeat itself with nanotechnology. Such people could ignore the &#8220;nerds&#8221; building stuff in their garages, who built the microcomputer portion of the industrial revolution, because they were not pushed by the press as real changers, till it was too late to stop their market-based industry from takeoff. They had a precious period of time to work, out of the spotlights.</p>
<p>This is *not* the case with nanotechnology. From day one it has been held up as transformative. Drexler, and myself, and many others, view this with pleasure. *Many* others view it with terror. This is *not* because they still believe in &#8220;gray goo&#8221;, but because funding this technology makes their future less predictable, *for*them*. People will continue to oppose nanotechnology unless some event makes people more afraid of a nanotechnology competitor than they are of *us* developing mechanosynthesis nanotechnology, as happened with spaceflight, lifting that technology politically, even as it warped its development away from market-viable technologies.</p>
<p>The idea that politicians don&#8217;t know about such people is not viable. They want political profit, and with any publicly transformative technology, they start off 20-30 percentage points in the hole. Thus, it was easy for businessmen wanting a profit in 5 years to make a case that molecular mechanosynthesis nanotechnology *had* to be treated as fantasy, in order for the entire field to remain a viable recipient of political funding.</p>
<p>We, on the other hand, should now see that our task is doubled:</p>
<p>1.) To gain the attention of all that we can of the population to the positive aspects of nanotechnology, so that political profitability for the politicians is assured for funding, without the irreconcilables, and even in spite of them.</p>
<p>2.) To make private investment funding the dominant source of funding as soon as possible, so that the political profit/loss balance affects the situation as little as possible.</p>
<p>Regards,</p>
<p>Tom Billings</p>
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		<title>By: JamesG</title>
		<link>http://www.foresight.org/nanodot/?p=2961#comment-814593</link>
		<dc:creator>JamesG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 23:58:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.foresight.org/nanodot/?p=2961#comment-814593</guid>
		<description>Mr. Johnson, I wasn&#039;t referring to you specificly, so don&#039;t take it personal.  The motivation for the propaganda is fear of change, and bully euphoria, the sense of pleasure people get from bullying others, and so on.  Primitive human psychological insticts, the obvious stuff.  It&#039;s almost paranoia, any researcher who says nanotech is possible, is a quack, anyone who posts on the internet that they believe in it, is a delusional rapturist, and so on.  It&#039;s paranoia all the way down, for some of these folks.  I&#039;m not sure how to combat it, MNT is almost the &#039;George Bush&#039; of science at this point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Johnson, I wasn&#8217;t referring to you specificly, so don&#8217;t take it personal.  The motivation for the propaganda is fear of change, and bully euphoria, the sense of pleasure people get from bullying others, and so on.  Primitive human psychological insticts, the obvious stuff.  It&#8217;s almost paranoia, any researcher who says nanotech is possible, is a quack, anyone who posts on the internet that they believe in it, is a delusional rapturist, and so on.  It&#8217;s paranoia all the way down, for some of these folks.  I&#8217;m not sure how to combat it, MNT is almost the &#8216;George Bush&#8217; of science at this point.</p>
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		<title>By: </title>
		<link>http://www.foresight.org/nanodot/?p=2961#comment-814506</link>
		<dc:creator></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 12:27:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.foresight.org/nanodot/?p=2961#comment-814506</guid>
		<description>I imagine that I am lumped into your group of &quot;arrogant&quot; and &quot;ignorant&quot; people &quot;sniping&quot; at nanotech. But in my defense I have never likened MNT to the rapture or Star Trek. My reference to Star Trek was merely to point out that the general public&#039;s understanding of nanotech was likely not formed by reading &quot;Engines of Creation&quot; but by the popular TV science fiction series. 

You attribute two factors to MNT not being taken more seriously: Ignorance and Propaganda. Ignorance has no motivation, but propaganda certainly does. Again, I ask &#039;What is the motivation for this propaganda?&#039;

Apologies for not signing my previous entry.

Sincerely,
Dexter Johnson</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I imagine that I am lumped into your group of &#8220;arrogant&#8221; and &#8220;ignorant&#8221; people &#8220;sniping&#8221; at nanotech. But in my defense I have never likened MNT to the rapture or Star Trek. My reference to Star Trek was merely to point out that the general public&#8217;s understanding of nanotech was likely not formed by reading &#8220;Engines of Creation&#8221; but by the popular TV science fiction series. </p>
<p>You attribute two factors to MNT not being taken more seriously: Ignorance and Propaganda. Ignorance has no motivation, but propaganda certainly does. Again, I ask &#8216;What is the motivation for this propaganda?&#8217;</p>
<p>Apologies for not signing my previous entry.</p>
<p>Sincerely,<br />
Dexter Johnson</p>
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		<title>By: </title>
		<link>http://www.foresight.org/nanodot/?p=2961#comment-814504</link>
		<dc:creator></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 12:22:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.foresight.org/nanodot/?p=2961#comment-814504</guid>
		<description>We have become explorers and fallen off many edges of the World&#039;s end. The fact the we are still bound by physical boundaries and mental constraints, spells portent for all our best laid plans. Maybe by shear luck we shall dive into parallel thinking as we trust Thinkers from an ocean away and divide the plunder of a runaway GDP into a new stock market,
The best presenters of Developmental Convergence claim that we are on the verge of the developmental singularity, a much clearer expression of the Singularity. Maybe nanotechnology doesn&#039;t have to deliver anything other than itself. We stand on the shoulders/graves of giants and think we can pretend about something 5 years away? Obviously,something has to change, and when it does, I don&#039;t pretend to know it any better than I know the fellow next to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We have become explorers and fallen off many edges of the World&#8217;s end. The fact the we are still bound by physical boundaries and mental constraints, spells portent for all our best laid plans. Maybe by shear luck we shall dive into parallel thinking as we trust Thinkers from an ocean away and divide the plunder of a runaway GDP into a new stock market,<br />
The best presenters of Developmental Convergence claim that we are on the verge of the developmental singularity, a much clearer expression of the Singularity. Maybe nanotechnology doesn&#8217;t have to deliver anything other than itself. We stand on the shoulders/graves of giants and think we can pretend about something 5 years away? Obviously,something has to change, and when it does, I don&#8217;t pretend to know it any better than I know the fellow next to me.</p>
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		<title>By: </title>
		<link>http://www.foresight.org/nanodot/?p=2961#comment-814390</link>
		<dc:creator></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 02:34:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.foresight.org/nanodot/?p=2961#comment-814390</guid>
		<description>MNT has been excluded. That much is obvious, we can thank the ignorant people who don&#039;t understand the technology who make comments about it being &#039;like the rapture&#039; or &#039;like star trek&#039; etc.  The technology is not taken serious because of propaganda and ignorance, plain and simple.
And there&#039;s really no way to combat this phenomenon, it is pervuasive in society and affects many things (religion, politics, computers, etc.) So basically, I do not have a solution either, but I recognize the phenomenon. Nanorobotics would solve so many human problems, it&#039;s a tragedy and catastrophe that there are not crash programs to make nanorobotics already.  When this technology finally comes along (sometime in the next decade, imo), it will be recognized that millions of people died because a few arrogant and ignorant people couldn&#039;t resists sniping at the technology early on, thus insuring it&#039;s delay for years.


James G.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MNT has been excluded. That much is obvious, we can thank the ignorant people who don&#8217;t understand the technology who make comments about it being &#8216;like the rapture&#8217; or &#8216;like star trek&#8217; etc.  The technology is not taken serious because of propaganda and ignorance, plain and simple.<br />
And there&#8217;s really no way to combat this phenomenon, it is pervuasive in society and affects many things (religion, politics, computers, etc.) So basically, I do not have a solution either, but I recognize the phenomenon. Nanorobotics would solve so many human problems, it&#8217;s a tragedy and catastrophe that there are not crash programs to make nanorobotics already.  When this technology finally comes along (sometime in the next decade, imo), it will be recognized that millions of people died because a few arrogant and ignorant people couldn&#8217;t resists sniping at the technology early on, thus insuring it&#8217;s delay for years.</p>
<p>James G.</p>
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		<title>By: </title>
		<link>http://www.foresight.org/nanodot/?p=2961#comment-814277</link>
		<dc:creator></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Feb 2009 17:34:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.foresight.org/nanodot/?p=2961#comment-814277</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t believe I &quot;unintentionally&quot; underscored your point. Rather I anticipated it. 

I would like to address one of your fundamental assumptions about the public&#039;s understanding of what nanotechnology is that I didn&#039;t discuss in the blog entry. It seems to me that beyond the idea that &quot;Engines of Creation&quot; inspired Star Trek&#039;s Borg characters, you would be hard pressed to argue that the general public&#039;s understanding of what nanotechnology is comes from  Drexler&#039;s book since I imagine most don&#039;t even know that it exists, never mind have read it. Do you think this second-hand understanding diminishes the full ownership of the term?

Another issue that has always troubled me is the idea that is argued here again is that MNT was not ignored, but rather actively excluded, I often wonder why this would be the case, and assumed it was to get funding for material science that wouldn&#039;t otherwise get funding. But, if, as you say, all the material science would have been funded anyway, what is the motivation for this vast conspiracy to rob MNT of its rightful place as the one and only true nanotechnology? I am left without an answer after reading your entry here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t believe I &#8220;unintentionally&#8221; underscored your point. Rather I anticipated it. </p>
<p>I would like to address one of your fundamental assumptions about the public&#8217;s understanding of what nanotechnology is that I didn&#8217;t discuss in the blog entry. It seems to me that beyond the idea that &#8220;Engines of Creation&#8221; inspired Star Trek&#8217;s Borg characters, you would be hard pressed to argue that the general public&#8217;s understanding of what nanotechnology is comes from  Drexler&#8217;s book since I imagine most don&#8217;t even know that it exists, never mind have read it. Do you think this second-hand understanding diminishes the full ownership of the term?</p>
<p>Another issue that has always troubled me is the idea that is argued here again is that MNT was not ignored, but rather actively excluded, I often wonder why this would be the case, and assumed it was to get funding for material science that wouldn&#8217;t otherwise get funding. But, if, as you say, all the material science would have been funded anyway, what is the motivation for this vast conspiracy to rob MNT of its rightful place as the one and only true nanotechnology? I am left without an answer after reading your entry here.</p>
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